Great episode. Spot on analysis of The Lost Daughter and I too find Ferrante difficult to read. Also enjoyed your discussion about affairs, could be an interesting topic for an episode!!

I love your content, it is a real conversation between women of a certain age about real things !!! There are literally thousands , millions(?), of podcasts to choose from. Don’t listen if you don’t like it… It seems like if you want to give constructive criticism , maybe just state what you would like more off instead of saying everything has been horrible.

Also, I love the beach coverups and wardrobe of Olivia Colman on Lost Daughter…I keep seeing super short ones, I want ones that goes closer to the knee than the crotch! Is there a store I don’t know about that sells those types of linen/cotton things?

1) Chiming in about Elena Ferrante—I find the writing to be oddly stilted in a way that is distracting. Is the Italian likewise stilted? Maybe the translation is awkward? I read the first of the Naples books and couldn’t muster the enthusiasm to continue the series. 2) I second another commenter’s comment that it would be interesting to do an episode on infidelity, particularly in the context of long-term marriages. I can say from experience that the aftermath of my husband’s affair did not play out in the way I would have expected beforehand (btw we are still together). I agree with the notion that there are different kinds of affairs and they serve different “purposes.”

Halfway through this podcast and loving it. 1) My friend group had a similar affair incident decades ago, played out exactly the same way. 2) Agree about And Just Like That–there are a lot of elements that don’t make sense, but when it hits, it hits. 3) Internally debating whether my Olivia Colman love can overcome my dislike of Elena Ferrante to watch The Lost Daughter. . .

I’m so glad you said that about And Just Like That — I’m having trouble finding much more than total hatred, which I think says as much about us as it does about the show. That scene really landed for me. Those two have been working forever, and working together for years, and all we can talk about is their surgery or lack there of? No. Plus I really delight in seeing how they pulled out clothes and accessories from the original series and worked them in.

Well, I guess I won’t listen to the podcast again, if people are going to punt on having difficult conversations, or just roll over when any person of color shows up with vague criticism. I really do not see automatic capitulation as a way to move forward. In fact, it may be a way of patting someone on the head, and not taking them seriously. I see this happen over and over in our society now and I really think it is unhelpful. Just because someone is of Anglo or Euro extraction does not make their views less valid, or make every word out of their mouth a sin. Just no. Having said that, you all seem like nice and honest people.

The wise Ursula K. Le Guin had some interesting thoughts on Ferrante:
http://elenaferrante.com/reviews/my-brilliant-friend/ursula-k-le-guin-blog/

I appreciate the podcast discussion and your listeners’ commentary. I’m finding I still have so much to learn in midlife.

I(older white woman) probably watched 16 candles with out a thought to the racism portrayed in 16 candles..Now, married to a Chinese man, with biracial children, I had my eyes opened a bit. Then in the last few years I have really learned alot . My children are adults, but I realized so many things I could have done better…some small – like how come all my Christmas angels on were white, why not any brown ones?? I have continued to learn from my daughter, who was an emergency medicine resident at Bellevue in NYC at beginning of the pandemic, the types of micro aggressions that she faces, that I didn’t even understand a-being a woman and asian ie Patients requesting a White doctor.. Anyway, I am still learning and will continue. I have learned to say some things are not for me, and not gross.

I’m a fan of your podcast and grew up on a steady diet of Sassy. Lucky was my go-to magazine when I entered the workforce and had some money to spend on clothes. However, I found the casual racism towards Asians in this episode disappointing. First there was the proclamation by Kim that poke is gross but sushi is ok. Poke is rooted in Polynesian culture and sushi is Japanese. As an Asian American I’ve been dealing with white people telling me foods I eat are gross all the time. Then there was discussion of the movie Sixteen Candles. The portrayal of the Asian character in that movie is just so blatantly racist that in 2022 it should be obvious to even the most insensitive viewer. I just hated that you both downplayed the movie’s racism then proceeded to discuss the SATC reboot and how clunky white women can be around racism. So tone deaf. I grew up in the 80’s in a New England and the Sixteen Candles portrayal of the Asian foreign exchange student was so complicated for me. I was excited to see an Asian face on the big screen, but felt a simultaneous sense of shame that this was how white America viewed Asians. As a joke or something that no one could or would ever find cool. I remember how it made me squirm when my white friends laughed at all the scenes where Long Duk Dong (aka ” The Chinaman” as the host family calls him) was the punchline. Sigh. I understand that you love aspects of the movie, but to say that “it’s racist…but” really negates the discussions of equity on your show. It’s always the casual, subtle racism from people whom I admire that guts me.

I read “My Brilliant Friend” and didn’t like it much. But I loved both seasons of the HBO series. I think the difference was that in reading the novel, I grew impatient with the frenemy aspect of the friendship because I was viewing it as an adult woman. My take was if your “friend” is such an unsupportive bitch and hurts you so much, divorce her! But while watching the series I saw the friends as the very young women they were, which made their bond much more understandable. I fell asleep last night watching “The Lost Daughter,” but will return to it sometime. Maybe.

hi guys
glad you’re back
one thing i love is how consistent you are with the pod. always on time, always monday morning and always something to look forward to. thank you.

this was a juicy ep–i was listening so hard i had to stop working. kim, give poke another shot! there are plenty of cooked options, not just raw–it’s delish.

Great episode! Put the Tilda Swinton/John Berger film on my watchlist. I am a Ferrante fan and near completist but I get the issues (my sister gave up after one book). FYI, there has been speculation that she is a he but I’m pleased that the final opinion/reveal is that she is almost certainly a she: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/03/books/elena-ferrante-anita-raja-domenico-starnone.html

Enjoyed this so much — and actually laughed out loud at your wrap-up — thank you! Btw, while listening, I was kind of trying to figure out various commenters’ perspectives — like, why/how is it that your conversations feel genuinely interesting, and do not come off as annoying, even if they may occasionally skew toward “complaining”? Think it’s because you’re not just sitting there bitching and moaning helplessly, even if you are in fact bitching; you’re breaking down and analyzing your own, and the world’s, changing (and currently often negative) circumstances. (Btw, a pox on all of the toxic positivity crap — cannot *stand* it when privileged, fluffheaded types assert that depression, etc., are a matter of mindset.)

Great episode! I love your discussions of movies, music, and books the most and always get such great recommendations from you both. I loved the film The Lost Daughter and am not into Ferrante’s writing. I HATED Don’t Look Up, which felt more like an earnest monologue than the satire I was hoping for. Also watched about 15 minutes of French Dispatch before remembering I just can’t stomach Wes Anderson (except for Darjeeling Limited). Like Jen said, there’s no substance to his work. I also hate Elvis Costello, though technically I recognize he’s talented. For a juicy memoir, I’d recommend Friends and Enemies by Barbara Amiel. I had no idea who she was when I started reading it, and she’s pretty much a shitty person who lists Laura Ingraham and Ann Coulter as two of her close friends, but it is a a very good, albeit maddening, read if you can tolerate reading about bad people.

I had to stop listening early in bc I haven’t watched the new SATC yet. Don’t want to have surprises spoiled. (I know, I know… it is sort of on my To Do list.) I did get to hear about poke. I am just commenting here to say that I love it when people complain, as long as they aren’t mean or weirdly personal about it, bc we are all friends here and I want to know what you-all think. Although, I might argue with it. But that is what we humans do – we bicker. … … … Interestingly enough, two of my very favorite people raved about A Gentleman in Moscow. I haven’t read any of it. I am a dumb-*ss who is not in even a single book group! I tried to be in one last year, but I couldn’t deal with the wordy style of the non-fiction authors. Had to drop out. J’accuse moi! [i don’t speak French – can you tell?] Okay, I am stopping now.

Kim and Jenn, you two are so perfect together in conversation, with such chemistry—my only “complaint” is that it’s hard not to want to chime in and be part of your dialogue. When I saw the episode was called “We are all Mirandas,” I realized it was probably SATC Miranda (and I did like that episode), but I was also sort of hoping you might be referencing the Miranda character from Station Eleven. I read the book when it came out and liked it a lot and am also really enjoying the HBO series. Anyway, Miranda from S11 doesn’t appear for the first several episodes, but one of them is devoted entirely to her story. The “trust card”/affair part of this episode put me in mind of the character too.

Great episode. As someone who is nice to a fault and never wants to state an opinion if it isn’t pleasant (because I hate conflict and discomfort and I want people to like me) I appreciate when you are honest with your opinions. I notice when one of you dislikes something it still seems you are still a bit reluctant to state your true feelings on the matter. I behave the same and it makes me realize how borderline annoying it can be. Like, people actually want to know what you actually think and they’re not going to leave you because of it. I do understand the reasons behind being not overly opinionated on a show like this and certain personality types will never be overly opinionated, but do know that I appreciate your honesty and your opinions.

Thanks for this discussion. I learn so much from how you are both honest and vulnerable with each other and your audience. I am working on bringing this energy and honesty to my friendships as well so that I can have similar discussions about where we are at in our lives

Really enjoyed today’s podcast. Agree with JennR that And Just Like That does get better as it goes along (I haven’t watched all the episodes). As for books to read…my book group just read Amor Towles The Lincoln Highway. If you value quotation marks and knowing who is speaking at any given time DO NOT READ THIS BOOK. It’s full of clever gimmicks (such as no quotation marks)––I know he’s a very popular writer, but f*&k him and the computer on which he writes. I was once told, “A writer does all the work so the reader has all the pleasure.” Someone needs to pass that bit of wisdom on to Mr. Towles. (I did not finish the book––I read the first 35 pages, a bit in the middle and the last two “chapters” so I’d know how it ended) ((sorry for the rant))

Great episode! I really appreciate the real, honest discussions about issues so many of us are facing.
On a superficial note, Kim I love your glasses! Would you say where they are from?